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 Post subject: Changing skills
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Wile having a large variety of skills that can be used in any combination looks like a good idea, it may fall apart if proper care is not taken.

All skills must be useful in all lvls and balanced in any combination. A play should be able to play all the content with the skills of his choice and not be forced to change skills every 5 minutes.
TSW tryed to do these system and failed miserably, being forced to created templates and unofficial classes that could be changed every now and then, making all players equal to each other instead of different and unique.

It is promised that all skills will be good in any combination, I seriously hope so.

Another thing I hope that we don't have a hot-key system that allows the player to use 50 different skills at the same time. I rather be allowed to use less skills, but seeing those skills being more important, then having 50 different spells that I have to manage until I grow a major headache and get forced to leave the game. It is one of the main reasons I dislike WoW, too many skills, they don't fell important at all but I must manage them all if I want to do a good job, at the end of every raid I had to take pills because it was not only unenjoyable but stressful.

Back to the topic, in order to truly make our character, changing skills should not be completely free. A penalty for our sake, not to aggressive. Something like, when you equip a skill you will lvl it up from 1 to 1000, simply by having it equipped during combat, granting more effectiveness until mastered. If you remove it you lose half of your points. That simple. I believe that such thing can prevent abuse wile allowing players to change there mind latter.


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 Post subject: Re: Changing skills
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Dragonhand wrote:
Wile having a large variety of skills that can be used in any combination looks like a good idea, it may fall apart if proper care is not taken.

All skills must be useful in all lvls and balanced in any combination. A play should be able to play all the content with the skills of his choice and not be forced to change skills every 5 minutes.
TSW tryed to do these system and failed miserably, being forced to created templates and unofficial classes that could be changed every now and then, making all players equal to each other instead of different and unique.

It is promised that all skills will be good in any combination, I seriously hope so.

Another thing I hope that we don't have a hot-key system that allows the player to use 50 different skills at the same time. I rather be allowed to use less skills, but seeing those skills being more important, then having 50 different spells that I have to manage until I grow a major headache and get forced to leave the game. It is one of the main reasons I dislike WoW, too many skills, they don't fell important at all but I must manage them all if I want to do a good job, at the end of every raid I had to take pills because it was not only unenjoyable but stressful.



Our design is already locked down, but we allow you to hotbar any of the abilities that you know so that you can use them. However, you will not be spamming them. We have a very intricate combat system that makes this impossible. We can't talk much about it until Alpha, but combat requires your character to be constantly in balance.

Every single one of the 1890 Abilities in CoS are unique with no overlap. Strategy and tactics will also be needed in combat.

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 Post subject: Re: Changing skills
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:00 pm 
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That is good to know, but I hope that besides that, every skill is powerful on there own. Instead of having 20 different buff skills (Might Shield Aegis Death Wisper Guidance etc etc) to have way less that combat several effects, in order to make skills not only different but meaningful.

It is like the Difference between, random examples, Lineage and Dota, or WoW and GW2. On the second situation every skill feels more important, like casting that skill matters. Wile in the previous if you don't cast a specific skill, nothing much will change in the over all combat. Making every skill noticeable and worth using fells like and important thing to me.

Hope I'm getting my self understood (^.^)


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 Post subject: Re: Changing skills
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:47 am 
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Dragonhand wrote:
That is good to know, but I hope that besides that, every skill is powerful on there own. Instead of having 20 different buff skills (Might Shield Aegis Death Wisper Guidance etc etc) to have way less that combat several effects, in order to make skills not only different but meaningful.

It is like the Difference between, random examples, Lineage and Dota, or WoW and GW2. On the second situation every skill feels more important, like casting that skill matters. Wile in the previous if you don't cast a specific skill, nothing much will change in the over all combat. Making every skill noticeable and worth using fells like and important thing to me.

Hope I'm getting my self understood (^.^)


Buffs and debuffs don't really exist as in the normal sense they are very short term. All the abilities are complimentary. You are doing what a lot of us have done state a good point and then realise thats just not how Cos Works. I think you will get what you want.
As per your other point I think that skills/abilities are complimentary and give you more options they don't necessarily make you more powerful(Though knowledge is power).

I will post a quote here which may help:-

Abilities: Cadre
“The five symbols, as Jatar mentioned above, are each of the leagues. The building is the University where players can go to pick a cadre (a set "course" list for players who find the idea of 1800 abilities daunting). These can include ones such as Necromancer, Paladin, or one of many many other cadres we have. You don't have to follow the course list it's more of a guideline for people who want abilities that fall into those more classical roles.”
Abilities (Unique)
(Morphael)
“Our abilities are not just name changes. Our specific design requires that no ability overlaps another. It's extremely daunting and a massive amount of work.

We worked hard to make every single ability one that you want to get because we want choice to matter. We want to reward people for thinking and playing smart and this includes how they choose and use their abilities.”
Abilities Challenge and how the numbers were arrived at !!
“No kidding, I couldn't agree more. Creating our list of Abilities has been daunting. The number of Abilities came from some simple math. Due to Uber Abilities (something we haven't yet discussed- But 120 additional mentioned in kickstarter), there needed to be 54 base Abilities in each League.

A base Abilities is a kind of similar line of skill or magic, though not the same Ability at all. Example: one line of magic might be fire spells. But... just because two spells use fire does not make them even remotely the same. One can be a fireball that tracks and strikes a moving opponent, while another could be an exploding blast that strikes a location and continues to burn an area of ground (or anyone within the flames).

So, each League needed 54 base lines. Then, within each base line we wanted seven unique Abilities using that base (like the fire example above), one for each Tier of the Citadel. That means 7 x 54 = 378, multiplied times the five Leagues of Knowledge, 378 x 5 = 1890. This is the maximum number of Abilities for the game, though we may or may not reach that number, but it will be up close to that number.

So now that we knew how many we needed, the question that arose was, can we make 1890 unique Abilities? Not only that, but each and every one of those 1890 Abilities needed to be able to be improved by study and practice, nearly indefinitely. If you think this is easy, you haven't been in on the hundreds of hours of design meetings on Abilities for CoS. We still haven't fully succeeded, though we are still plugging away, and indications are there now that we will make our goal eventually.

So far we have not had to compromise out original goal that EVERY Ability have something unique from all others... in other words, no combining other Abilities to make a new one, or why would a player not just take the better version? Of course, we're not there yet, but like I said, we've got a system that, at least mathematically, says we can achieve the goal with a lot more hard work.

We've had to attack this from several directions, and Ability meetings come with a certain dread, simply because I won't give an inch on the ideals, and the task is extremely difficult.”

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