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 Post subject: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:22 am 
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Just some questions on how paths work...

Points in a lower skill boost higher skill, right? So say you have 10 points in the first skill in the line. Will it give you, 5 in the second, 5 in the third, 5 in the fourth, ect.? Or will it go 5 in the second, 4 in the third, 3 in the fourth, ect.

And how many points do I need in a skill to get the next one in the path? Say I want a tier two skill. Would I be able to just put one study point into the tier one, and then unlock the one I wanted or would I have to practice a bit?

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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:36 am 
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The way I understand it, you always get the same number of skill points, but the cost of improving a skill goes up each time you improve it. The good thing about this system is that it shows you how much you need for the next skill improvement. With a system of diminishing returns, that cost will eventually become extremely high as you get great with that skill, but at least you will always know exactly what you need to get there.

I hope this is info I can share. If not this post may suddenly disappear. :o


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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:10 pm 
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We haven't locked down the number of points you need for each Ability yet, but that's OK, an example will still show the system.

There are seven Abilities in a Skill line. For example sake, let's pretend we are talking about the Fire Damage line of Abilities.

The first Ability in that line is a single Fireball. Putting on Study Point in it gets you this Ability at the lowest level. Hence, your Fireball, when case, is a single fireball that does 1-3 fire damage if it strikes your enemy.

As you keep putting points into this Fireball Ability, the amount of damage is going up since you are making a bigger and bigger fireball. Let's say you put 40 Study Points into this line. Now you are doing, say: 12-40 HP of Fire damage. Now you reach Tier 2, and Second Level Abilities in all Lines become available.

You look at the Fire Damage line and see that the second one in the line is Split Fireball, meaning it send two at two different targets. You decide you want that Ability. It requires that you have placed 30 Study Points into the line to get it. You have already placed 40, which means, as soon as you go get the Tome of Knowledge for Split Fireball, you can already use it at 10 Study Point level.

Now, each Study Point you put in increases both Fireball and Split Fireball, though the next point you put it will bring Fireball to 41 and Split Fireball to 11.

There is a diminishing returns system, so even though Fireball will continue to do more damage as you keep putting points into the Fire damage line, it will slow down the higher your point total gets.

Note: If you only put, say, 10 Study Points into the Fire Damage line, even if you have all seven Tomes of Knowledge in that line, you cannot use the other six, not until you reach the minimum point value to reach that next level. The idea with this system is to have some specialization in players, since if they want higher Abilities they need to spend some amount of points in the line to get there.

It is also important to note though, that even a Level One Ability, like Fireball, is JUST as useful when up on Tier 7 as it was on Tier 1 in CoS. Abilities never become useless. This is because we do not increase the number of Hit Points it takes to kill a monster by any extreme degree as you go up Tiers. On Tier 1, a monster might take 500 HPs, on Tier 7 (near the end of the game) a monster might take 1000 HP. This is not so much of a difference, that taking off 50 HPs with a Fireball hit doesn't matter to a Tier 7 monster, it does.

Certainly, it will be much better if you put more points in Fireball along the way, so that by the time you are at Tier 7 your Fireball does 100 HPs. If you do this, your Tier 1 Fireball Ability is JUST as powerful on Tier 7 as it was on Tier 1. In other words, in our examples, it would take 10 Fireballs to kill the Tier 1 monster at 50 HP per fireball, and the same 10 Fireball hits on Tier 7 to kill the monster with 1000 HP.

Because of this, getting lower level Tier 1 Abilities, even without getting the entire line of seven, is still worthwhile, even if you are up on on high Tiers when you get it. Just pump in some Study points.

I hope this clarifies our system. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:26 pm 
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So, do you put Study points into the line or the specific ability? Would it be worthwhile to get the bare minimum of study points in each skill until tier seven where you just fill it so that all of the skills in the line get super high instead of just the lowest?

Also, another question. Would the split fireball have less damage since it hit less targets? Or would it just have a higher cost? (In general, how do you balance utilities I mean. Not specifically for fireball.)

And about what Lonfer said. I thought the diminishing returns system was that you always put one point in, but each time the gain was decreased. Do costs increase over the levels?

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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:16 am 
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Points go into the whole line. The idea behind this is, abilities within the lines will be unique, but themed. If you are well versed in attacking with fire 1 way, the knowledge and muscle memory will bleed into other ways of manipulating fire to deal damage.

Your definition of diminishing returns is right. Lonfer probably means that you need more points to get the same effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Mystic wrote:
Would it be worthwhile to get the bare minimum of study points in each skill until tier seven where you just fill it so that all of the skills in the line get super high instead of just the lowest?


There is no advantage in that, in fact, it would be a severe disadvantage. Putting one point in an ability gives you such a weak version that it won't do you a lot of good. So having a bunch of somewhat weak Abilities, when you can only do one thing at a time. In other words, I'd rather have a 100 HP damaging fireball than a 5 HP damaging fireball, lightning bolt, ice blast, etc.

There is also no advantage to waiting until Tier 7, you do not earn study points faster in higher Tiers, so there is no way to quickly pump them up when you get there. You need to work on adding points to a particular Ability line, so that by the time you get to Tier 7 and get that final one in the line you can actually use it.

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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:17 pm 
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Okay, thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Of course, now we went and made a fundamental change to this entire system...

You can now get any of the 1890 Abilities on Tier 1. There are no Tier based Abilities. We still have Ability lines, and you must take each Echelon in order in that line, but there is nothing stopping you from getting an Echelon 7 Ability on Tier 1.

This and a few other changes to the design, were made as part of our adaptation to allow players of higher Tiers to adventure with players of lower tiers. Now a player on Tier 1 can have an Ability that is as powerful as anything a player has on Tier 7. What they can't have is diversity. On Tier 1 you won't need diversity to survive, but on Tier 7 it is crucial. Therefore a player from Tier 7 can come down to Tier 1 without having a huge advantage, while a player from Tier 1 would get smeared on Tier 7 (though they can't actually go there until they earn their way up).

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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:51 pm 
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Interesting...

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 Post subject: Re: Echelon Paths
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:27 pm 
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