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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:11 am 
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i guess i'm a dinosaur..

If it doesn't have an XP disabler, i usually don't even touch it..
It's the journey..never the destination :)


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:44 am 
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amusedmonkey wrote:
Grind, what CoS is trying to eliminate, is the act of doing the same thing over and over and over again like a grinding wheel that keeps turning around the same axis. For example, killing the same mob for hours because it provides the best XP, or running the same dungeon which is exactly the same every time. True, some players WILL optimize their gameplay, might try to skip adventures or take a shortcut here or there. The difference here is that even those who do that will not be repeating the exact same thing, but rather enjoying a completely different experience.

In your example, grinding a story would mean to read the same page 50 times before you move to the next.


Well said.

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:18 am 
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amusedmonkey wrote:
Dragonhand wrote:
I can grind a story, can't I? How long do you think I take to read a 1000 pages book? Last Rothfuss didn't lasted for more then 2 days.

Players will always try to optimize there gaming, what ever the reward is. It can be a subconscious thing, so you probably wont be able to break that mentality, as most ppl who do it are not aware of it.


I think you are mixing two terms together here. What you are talking about is "rushing through" content or doing a lot in a short time. That's up to the gamers themselves, not the game.

Grind, what CoS is trying to eliminate, is the act of doing the same thing over and over and over again like a grinding wheel that keeps turning around the same axis. For example, killing the same mob for hours because it provides the best XP, or running the same dungeon which is exactly the same every time. True, some players WILL optimize their gameplay, might try to skip adventures or take a shortcut here or there. The difference here is that even those who do that will not be repeating the exact same thing, but rather enjoying a completely different experience.

In your example, grinding a story would mean to read the same page 50 times before you move to the next.


I see the point.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:58 am 
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amusedmonkey wrote:
Dragonhand wrote:
I can grind a story, can't I? How long do you think I take to read a 1000 pages book? Last Rothfuss didn't lasted for more then 2 days.

Players will always try to optimize there gaming, what ever the reward is. It can be a subconscious thing, so you probably wont be able to break that mentality, as most ppl who do it are not aware of it.


I think you are mixing two terms together here. What you are talking about is "rushing through" content or doing a lot in a short time. That's up to the gamers themselves, not the game.

Grind, what CoS is trying to eliminate, is the act of doing the same thing over and over and over again like a grinding wheel that keeps turning around the same axis. For example, killing the same mob for hours because it provides the best XP, or running the same dungeon which is exactly the same every time. True, some players WILL optimize their gameplay, might try to skip adventures or take a shortcut here or there. The difference here is that even those who do that will not be repeating the exact same thing, but rather enjoying a completely different experience.

In your example, grinding a story would mean to read the same page 50 times before you move to the next.



Not exactly the same in CoS. Again, since we do things different it's hard to compare.

You won't be grinding mobs for XP, ever. First, they don't respawn so you would have to constantly search for them. There are also other systems in place we can talk about after Alpha that would make this an unwise thing to do.

As far as reading the same 50 pages over again.. since there are no "re-do's" in CoS, your choice is your choice. You can't go back and make a different one to see how it changes things.

I guess grinding would be... well, if someone finds one I'll be surprised since we made it a goal to remove them :P

"Optimized" game play would probably be not dying, ever... but since we don't have level or skill caps, that would just be smart playing.

Optimizing usually requires a pattern to optimize to. With how much our world, NPCs and combat changes it'll be hard to optimize anything.. though I'm sure someone will try :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:59 am 
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This entire choices concept, when coupled with the ongoing changes all around the universe..begs the question..

Will the game sport black hoods?

Do not laugh, it is a legitimate query..of immense import..


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:04 am 
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Max wrote:
This entire choices concept, when coupled with the ongoing changes all around the universe..begs the question..

Will the game sport black hoods?

Do not laugh, it is a legitimate query..of immense import..


Let's not get racist here. I'm sure there are all kinds of neighborhoods.
<duck>
<run>
<hide>

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:09 pm 
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Morphael wrote:
Optimizing usually requires a pattern to optimize to. With how much our world, NPCs and combat changes it'll be hard to optimize anything.. though I'm sure someone will try :)


Oh I will, you can bet on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Not exactly the same in CoS. Again, since we do things different it's hard to compare.

You won't be grinding mobs for XP, ever. First, they don't respawn so you would have to constantly search for them. There are also other systems in place we can talk about after Alpha that would make this an unwise thing to do.

As far as reading the same 50 pages over again.. since there are no "re-do's" in CoS, your choice is your choice. You can't go back and make a different one to see how it changes things.

I guess grinding would be... well, if someone finds one I'll be surprised since we made it a goal to remove them :P

"Optimized" game play would probably be not dying, ever... but since we don't have level or skill caps, that would just be smart playing.

Optimizing usually requires a pattern to optimize to. With how much our world, NPCs and combat changes it'll be hard to optimize anything.. though I'm sure someone will try :)[/quote]

What is amusing , is someone will always try but based on the current design. That sort of player will never cross my path in game so it will matter little to me.

I am more interested in people who are really interested in the game , I have little time for smart arses too many of them to deal with in real life. Lets focus on the community and fun in game thats my priority.

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:31 am 
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Raevyn wrote:
One thing I'd also like to point out is how you're talking about these games.

"party is a waste of money and time"
"double or triple your leveling time, dungeons are bad to gain xp"

You're talking about them like everything is about working to get to the "end". With CoS, we're trying to break that mentality. Every moment in the game, from when you first start to when you decide to quit (that won't happen, right!?) ;), is meant to be the story of you, a Fallen Hero. Sure, we have the "carrot", but it's not the same carrot you might be used to.

What we're hoping to accomplish is not only giving you something to always look forward to, but also to make it so that your journey is full of rewards of its own. That each story, or other gameplay element you participate in, is worth your time because it's just that fun.

Sure, everyone likes to get more powerful, and see more, and do more - but when we say we've taken the "grind" out of MMO's - we mean it. You cannot "grind a dungeon", you cannot head to a lonely part of the world with tons of mobs and chain pull them until you're "max level" (which doesn't exist in our game).

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is - think less "work" and more "play" when you think about the time you'll be spending in our world ;p


This is exactly why I'm so looking forward to CoS and found so many other games a bore.

Striving for the end isn't even really a bad thing, but when its only the end that's worth anything, it becomes a problem.

And too many games want to give you showy end game armor and weapons to push you to get to that end game. The better idea would be to make it FUN to get to that end game.

CoS seems to be built from the ground up thinking of fun. Going after that carrot is going to be a joy, not a chore. Games are for fun, not work, and no matter how big and shiny that carrot is at the end, I won't play a game just for that carrot. Gotta like the time you spend in your free time, after all!

This, more than anything else, is why I'm drawn to CoS, it's different in that the plan is to make people stay with fun, not new fancy items to get every few months.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about Quests
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:52 am 
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Mattrellen wrote:
Raevyn wrote:
One thing I'd also like to point out is how you're talking about these games.

"party is a waste of money and time"
"double or triple your leveling time, dungeons are bad to gain xp"

You're talking about them like everything is about working to get to the "end". With CoS, we're trying to break that mentality. Every moment in the game, from when you first start to when you decide to quit (that won't happen, right!?) ;), is meant to be the story of you, a Fallen Hero. Sure, we have the "carrot", but it's not the same carrot you might be used to.

What we're hoping to accomplish is not only giving you something to always look forward to, but also to make it so that your journey is full of rewards of its own. That each story, or other gameplay element you participate in, is worth your time because it's just that fun.

Sure, everyone likes to get more powerful, and see more, and do more - but when we say we've taken the "grind" out of MMO's - we mean it. You cannot "grind a dungeon", you cannot head to a lonely part of the world with tons of mobs and chain pull them until you're "max level" (which doesn't exist in our game).

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is - think less "work" and more "play" when you think about the time you'll be spending in our world ;p


This is exactly why I'm so looking forward to CoS and found so many other games a bore.

Striving for the end isn't even really a bad thing, but when its only the end that's worth anything, it becomes a problem.

And too many games want to give you showy end game armor and weapons to push you to get to that end game. The better idea would be to make it FUN to get to that end game.

CoS seems to be built from the ground up thinking of fun. Going after that carrot is going to be a joy, not a chore. Games are for fun, not work, and no matter how big and shiny that carrot is at the end, I won't play a game just for that carrot. Gotta like the time you spend in your free time, after all!

This, more than anything else, is why I'm drawn to CoS, it's different in that the plan is to make people stay with fun, not new fancy items to get every few months.


I love the discussion in this thread, it is the entire reason I started this whole project in the first place many years ago. The simple truth, I started the design of CoS and gathered people to make it simply because I wanted to play it, and I just couldn't find this anywhere else (or I would have just gone and played it). I will be right in the world with the rest of you, I'll be that guy with the big grin on his face having the time of his life.

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