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 Post subject: Re: Combat styles
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:01 am 
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Raevyn wrote:
Smolgen wrote:
Jatar wrote:
In CoS, there will be group strategy, sure, and your buddies might forget to do their part, but don't forget individual strategy as well. Things like using the terrain to your advantage. Get above your opponent by standing on a big boulder, then use a long reach weapon, put your back to a wall so fewer opponents can attack you at once, move into a confined space where long weapons are obstructed and switch to a dagger. Move to high ground and increase the damage of your missiles while shooting down at your opponents. Just some examples.


That is EXACTLY what I am looking forward to :)

Combat that does not revolve around rotation bull crap and feels real. Combat where I can use tactics that I would actually use in real life if I were in such a situation...

You NEVER see anyone use these tactics at all.


I completely share your sentiments. For example I play ESO currently and the primary source of high damage output for ANY class involves "weaving" light/heavy attacks with 1-2 other abilities to output the most damage. Lay on a couple of dots, then attack weave, re-apply dots...and weave again. That is how you become "the best dps in ESO".

What we are doing with the combat in CoS is so innovative that we are hoping to avoid such boiled down game play. Every skill (and this is why it is SO difficult to design) is unique. There will be no rotations because your combat scenarios just won't be boiled down to you can only do damage, or you can only heal. If you try to ONLY do anything, you will find yourself being rather unsuccessful. So, repeating a rotation will not be useful or provide you with the highest damage output. And, in many cases, the highest sustained damage output is not what will allow you to survive.

There are such a wide variety of abilities and ways of dealing with any situation, that no one way will be ultimately successful.

For example, sometimes killing your enemy isn't the best way to handle a situation. Perhaps you'll need to damage them and then restrain them in some way to question them. If you only focus on doing the most damage and only take abilities to further that goal, you will never have anything in your arsenal that will allow you to do this.


Not too sure many players would be satisfied in the long run. Players generally tend to find being a healer, rogue, thief, ... is preferable and to improve their skills in that particular field and get better is easier rather than trying to become everything when they can play for about 2hours per day on the days they play. Being in a party and thus helping each other out is very important as it seems. You will choose your class on what it has to offer, on looks ,etc. If we start the game it seems it will be preferable to play with others who are not the same as us, a healer, ninja,...

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 Post subject: Re: Combat styles
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:00 am 
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devilzxdemon wrote:
Players generally tend to find being a healer, rogue, thief, ... is preferable and to improve their skills in that particular field


People will still specialize, it's been drilled into us to do so, as well as, like you said, people prefer it. This system simply means that we will also have to dabble in other areas, or be caught without the proper means to deal with the huge variety of situations that would arise. You will eventually need to branch out. Like Jatar often refers to; Gandalf the grey/white is obviously a wizard, but he carries a sword for when magic isn't appropriate.

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 Post subject: Re: Combat styles
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:35 am 
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devilzxdemon wrote:
Not too sure many players would be satisfied in the long run. Players generally tend to find being a healer, rogue, thief, ... is preferable and to improve their skills in that particular field and get better is easier rather than trying to become everything when they can play for about 2hours per day on the days they play. Being in a party and thus helping each other out is very important as it seems. You will choose your class on what it has to offer, on looks ,etc. If we start the game it seems it will be preferable to play with others who are not the same as us, a healer, ninja,...


A few things.
1) I don't know that we can say what players prefer, simply because they have not been given another option. Players of MMOs have pretty much always had to pick a class and are then stuck in it.

2) As noted, players may specialize, in fact our system rewards some specialization. We did this so that players did not become 'mud' (all the same). A simple example is that you can get any Ability, but to get an Echelon 7 Ability, you have to first take Echelons 1-6 of that Ability. This means you have just specialized in some type if skill set. Also, it is extremely expensive to belong to all five Leagues of Knowledge at once. Sure, you can switch Leagues, but the Abilities you got from a previous League cannot progress further unless you belong to that League. Players will tend to stick with a League or two, so that they can progress all of the Abilities they have, thus specializing even more. One thing that is different about CoS is that the mix of Abilities you will get within your specialty can vary significantly. Two Healers, or two Battle Mages, won't necessarily have the same skill set, in fact, it is far more likely that they will have different sets of Abilities. Secondly, you can pick up a few Abilities outside your specialty, which help you survive.

3) It is a statistical fact that most players solo more time than they spend in groups. With our system you can have enough support Abilities from other Leagues so that your specialization doesn't make playing solo difficult. Yet, you still have enough specialization to work in a group.

4) We want a more realistic combat system. This means that, though you may specialize, the world does not always recognize that fact. What I mean by this is that if you are a healer, and a monster comes at you with an axe, that monster doesn't care that you are a healer. He doesn't look at the red cross on your hat and say, "Oh, healer, I don't eat them." You had better be able to defend yourself, or be eaten. Having a mix of Abilities allows you to handle different situations, yet having some specialization allows you to fill a need in a group.

5) When players start the game they will likely be more specialized then later in the game. So early on, while they are learning, they won't have to deal with so much, but the further they get into the game, the broader their skill set will get. This improves several things about the game, first, you keep learning, and the game doesn't become a repetitions grind. Secondly, when a group comes along and they need someone to be the ranged attack person in the group, you have those skills and can fill that void, but if they group has too many archers, and needs a mage, well, you have those skills as well, and can still join the group and fill that need instead.

So I have to say that your statement that "Not too sure many players would be satisfied in the long run" is, in our opinion, utterly incorrect. In fact, we feel the exact opposite. Our system starts simple, with players joining one League and easing into one set of Abilities for one type of character, yet lets the player continue to grow and become more throughout the game, keeping the game fun and not repetitious. So in the long run, in other MMOs, players will be bored with their character that never grows beyond what they started with, while in CoS the game remains fresh and interesting, getting better the longer you play. Statistics help us understand this, since the average player stays 3 months in any MMO game. In our system we believe they will stay MUCH longer. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Combat styles
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:59 pm 
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I have heard alot about different combat systems and even after reading this thread I find it interesting. I have played many different games over the last 30 years and have had a love/hate relationship with them.

Sure the mental midget cooldown rotation button mashing stand like an idiot and trade blows style games like WOW are getting more and more less popular. However there are many millions across many games that prefer this low intelligent style of play. Its less stressful and requires little thinking.

Then you have your twitchy jump around like a fool games like Secret World and you have the players that love it or hate it... It does require more skill to play a twitch based system, it makes you think about what you are doing. However they are inherently bug ridden and none are done well... they either dont care or they spend so much effort on the environment/mechanics and forget about polishing up the combat.


Neither system is perfect in any way and anything that that is designed that is better than what has come before is worth giving some credit to until its tested. This is the only way we are going to know what works and what doesnt. Sure there are players who arent going to like the combat...

Many players wont like it, or they wont like the difficulty, or the leagues.. or anything else tied in some way to the combat system.

You cant please every one all the time.. Its just not possible. Ive had to face this and I know many others on here have as well. Its a fact of life. And in the game development industry this is felt far more often. Its thrown in their face every day.

When we go to game review websites we see them every day... "this games going to suck" or This game cant beat WoW", or how about " the graphics suck so the games going to fail". Looking at the kickstarter comments for COS was a repeated facepalm session for over an hour... I couldnt believe the low intelligence caustic remarks about a game that wasnt even in pre alpha stage yet.

And it was already being criticized as a failure...

All I can say at this time frame is be open minded, take in all the information that Jatar and Team release, and if you have questions ask. The only stupid question is the one not asked. You may not like the answers, or they confuse you.. However the game is still in development and many things are on the horizon.

So we ask that players be mindful in this and be patient as unlike 98% of the games that we currently play could have used a little patience in development and they may have been better than they are.

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